More news from the front lines in the PvP v PvE war I’m bangin the drums for

Well I was called an extremist (basically) by my new hero, which meh, slightly saddened me, but whatever. I don’t feel like a PvP extremist, I mean yeah I loved UO and being a total dick, but I think it’s just that I’m extremely angry at PvEers and I’ve not released it so I’m fucking full of rage towards those assholes.

The reason I like PvP is for the competition. I don’t want to just be on the winning team, because from what I’ve noticed competing with people online for so many years is that usually the best people are spread around the factions. I like knowing who the best enemies are, I like them knowing who I am as well, mainly only on the battlefield with an occasional /wave on a forum or something. Good PvPers respect each other. Why? My guess is that we were all taught how to have good sportsmanship at some point in our life. You may take that and say well, then how come you’re being such a bad sport with all these PvE people? Well, because I’m not competing with them. We haven’t even played a game together. They hated me the second they found out that I enjoy fighting other people, regardless of whether they’re a PvPer or a PvEer.

To me I can’t help but see them as band wagoners. A PvEer who replied to my comments even proves that they are, almost anyways, imo. To me they’re the kind of people who would hear 1 guildie say something negative about anything and, of course, would immediately go and trash whatever it is, on a forum, chatroom, in game, whatever. That’s why I’m not really a fan of guilds, because every time I join one someone expects the rest to jump on their crusade, all for one and one for all! It’s this blind obedience and sheep-like behavior that honestly disheartens me.

It’s like they’ve given up on their original goals in life and had to make up new ones that fit with their “settled for” “mediocre lifestyle” and are essentially lying to themselves. Which people do, which is why I understand it, hell I do it too (just not on anything as important as well, MY GOALS AND DREAMS, yet anyways).

I don’t even get why they even want to play games. Why not go take care of your fucking kids, since, from my experiences, most PvEers (read: guild goers, raiders, etc) are older people who are drawn in from their table top games of old. Which, brings me to another point. They always say we fucking reminisce of the good ol days in UO and how that’s what we want and it’ll never work it’s such a risk. Well guess what motherfuckers, you’re no fucking different. We want the games to be like our past time, and so do you. Your past time is further back than ours, therefor you are the old and we are the new. Do I have to put the expression here?

Back to why they even play. Some say they like PvE because it’s easy and their life is hard. What I don’t get is why they’re spending so much goddamn time playing a game instead of trying to make their lives easier.

Some say they do it to learn teamwork, for some fucking reason that seems appealing to middle aged nerds. What they don’t realize is that being given a job and doing it right doesn’t involve teamwork, it’s called doing your job. Now, on the other hand, if you’re PvPing, it is fucking teamwork. Sure, you’ve still got your jobs as whatever class/build you are, but you’ve also got strategy and tactics, and so does your opponent. Ultimately I would argue that PvP requires teamwork whereas PvE does not, because playing your role, doing what you’re supposed to do is not teamwork, it’s being a subordinate.

They won’t keep their PvE out of my PvP. That is my only problem with them. I am generally a kind hearted person with a bit of a twisted sense of humor, I consider my skin at least a little tough and I think others should have a degree of toughness to their skin as well.

I’m reminded of some local controversy in my area on the terrestrial radio. A shock jock from back in the day Bubba The Love Sponge has recently returned to the airwaves after being thrown off years ago for receiving the largest fine in FCC history at the time. There’s a little weasel fuck head douche bag who just shovels stupid shit out that the masses of sheep will eat up and his name is MJ, formerly of MJ and BJ which was okay until MJ fired BJ and slowly dwindled down to a shitty little person. I mean this guy’s a sleaze ball, he fires interns, hires new ones and then gives the new one the old ones name so no one will know.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that for the most part, PvEers remind me of everything in the world that I hate. The quitter mentality. The submissive. The settles for less than adequate. The general populous of the world.

You know up until this point I always thought I was a quitter. But now, it seems as though I’m not. I just don’t settle for mediocre crap.

I even played DnD a few times even though I’m pretty young. It is a fun game, it really is. But I can’t play it anymore because there’s one guy in charge. If that guy is a total fucking tool (usually the case) then you’re going to be bumping heads. Maybe that’s the point. I just know I’m not going to allow 1 individual to be my leader, to control me.

Fucking zombies everywhere man. They’re all pussy footin around just tryin to bite your neck so you’re as unhappy as they are and it fucking sickens me. The guy asks me more than once to give up. He’s telling me to not like what I like, who fucking does that? You old fucking guys are the past, the sooner you realize this the sooner the world will return to the happy fucking dream you thought it was at one time before my kind showed up. Well guess what, you were like me one day, and the old guys of your time told you to give up. I bet you ended up telling them to give up, didn’t you? Watch the Lion King my friends, it’s the fucking circle of life, and there’s nothing you can do to prevent it.

Anyways, here’s what he said and my response to him, I hope you’re entertained, and I hope you stay away from the dark side.


Darkmoth Says:
January 25, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Games are a business, skilled players doesn’t bring in the shekels, sub counts do. It’s irrelevant how good you and your ilk are, what’s important is…how MANY of you there are. How big is your market segment. See where this is going?

Just give it up about niche games being viable, niche games only happen on niche development budgets, and you PvPers are just as spoiled as us PvEers. Shadowbane. Fury. Yeah, they were buggy POSes, but that’s what you get on a niche budget. You don’t get a WoW or a WAR when the publishers know they are going to attract 150k people MAX. If you DO get a WoW or a WAR you can be damn sure they want Billy HappyJoy to play – they need to pay back the millions they spent on making a polished, bug-free game.

Screw what the developers say. The devs are on a salary just like you and me, and you certainly don’t get to make policy for YOUR boss. How many times does a game have to be published in BETA quality before people realize that the money calls the shots, not the vision. And what does the money say? “The more players the better”.

What’s ironic is, the more “skilled” you are, the rarer you are, the smaller your market segment and the less likely you are to find a game that targets you. If you DO find a game that is intended for you, it won’t run two consecutive hours without crashing, or will be developed in VGA colors. You won’t play it, and it will die. You don’t get the massive gameworlds and deep designs, because they COST TOO MUCH to rely on a relative handful of malcontents.

“Hardcore” PvPers are the Flight Simmers of the new millenium. The genre has moved past you, instead of Falcon 4 and Jane’s Longbow you will get MS Flight Sim X. It’s laughable to think you’ll be able to negatively affect anyone’s gameplay. You are simply the boogyman under the bed. Chained and caged, you will rage harmlessly while the sheep who pay the bills point at you and say “how scary!”.

Get over it already.

My response:

Bonedead Says:
January 25, 2008 at 3:08 pm

I would love to follow you around in any game, no matter how gay it is, and just kill you over and over.

You seem to have confused PvPers with PvEers. I don’t want to claim to speak for all PvPers, but I know I don’t need massive gameworlds or deep designs, KISS. Shit, my computer has trouble running a lot of these new shiny top of the line graphics games already.

I think it’s amusing that you, in your carebear state, have already tried to (possibly subconsciously) claim Warhammer as your PvE lovefest. I say this because of what you say here: “You don’t get a WoW or a WAR when the publishers know they are going to attract 150k people MAX.”

Isn’t Warhammer centered on PvP? That’s what I heard.

I seriously cannot wait for this game to come out. I don’t even really want to play it, I’m a bit more interested in Conan. But you know what, nothing would make me happier than to be the boogyman chained and caged in the PvP zones, while you and your ilk are cowering in your PvE zones looking out at me shaking in your little epic booties.

Maybe I’m taking this too far, but I really don’t care. I don’t feel bad about any of this, except that it’s taking place on Syncaine’s blog, it really shouldn’t be there. I doubt he’ll read this but if he does, I’m sorry dude.

One thing I’ve noticed in my years on the net and in games is that while the PvPers appear ruthless, ganking, and borderline desperate, the PvEers can be more harsh. Why? Well for one they’re usually more eloquent(and they’re really fucking full of themselves with their BA/BS in English). They’re also in guilds with tons of people who will /send you more times than you’d like to remember(ever read of the slave pets some of these wow women have in their guilds?). On the other hand, the PvPers are just more immature saying things like “lolz ur gay faggot”, like that’s gonna hurt your feelings. If anything you’ll find 3 of them together at most imo and they’ll all be equally dumb, there’s usually one who is the moral leader and he’ll be a bit more quiet and intelligent.

I wish we could live together peacefully. But every new fucking game that comes out they see as their new PvE heaven, which isn’t right imo. It’s called being FUCKING GREEDY. You’ve got tons of fucking good PvE games out. You realize that you’re similar to a virus or plague that spreads and destroys everything. Shit, Syncaine said in one of his posts that PvE end game requires new content all the fucking time. Whereas PvP end game only requires players, therefor less money, less content updates, less upkeep.

I wanted to try and end this on a kind note, but seriously, fuck that and fuck PvEers trying to bring their stupid fucking kill a scripted mob mentality into Warhammer, a game that’s is supposed to be centered around PvP.

Essentially we’re just two animals with two kinds of fun (we’re just better at killing, and they’re better at crying*).

*You can cry with your wallet.

Syncaine from Hardcore Casual is my new hero

It’s not often that I stumble across a blogger that gets it when it comes to PvP. Most of the people I read seem for PvP but more on the fence, and they all don’t like touching it with any size pole (mainly because they have to design it). I also don’t stray from my normal blogs often, so hopefully there’s a bunch I haven’t seen.

On to the point. Syncaine posted something great about Warhammer and it brings back old memories of PvEers trying to change PvP games to be their new little pet. I fucking hate that shit so much and I hope you do to. I know pacifism is in right now but seriously, fuck that shit when it comes to this. I want a fucking fun MMO that I can have as much fun on a regular basis in as I did for a few Half-Life mods, mainly CS, and now Savage 2. I want that, they don’t want me to have it, fuck them.

His (I assume) post got me so worked up that I basically posted more content in his comments than I have heard in the last day or two (LULZ). So click here to go check out his rant, and ALSO check out the most recent post attempting to make PvE babies not so afraid of PvP (which I support, believe it or not).

I’ll now be posting my comments so you can see just what I’m talking about, just in case you’re an asshole who doesn’t click links. There are 2, the first one is directed at his post, the second at his comments.


Bonedead Says:
January 25, 2008 at 10:37 am

God do I love you sir. I know exactly what you mean and it fucking infuriates me. I used to be a lot more passionate about MMOs and their release a few years back. Then I began to realize that the good old boy network of PvE carebear douchebags had the agenda of trying to turn every friggin game into a PvE heaven. I fucking hate them so much. They look at PvP as a breeding ground for bad people, similar imo to the way extreme religious people try to convert everyone in typical asshole-like fashion. It’s fucking stupid and I’m fucking tired of it. I can’t wait to rape them, I really can’t wait to make them quit and whine on the message boards.



Bonedead Says:
January 25, 2008 at 11:17 am

So that first comment was a reaction the your blog post, this ones more directed at the comments, because they kind of piss me off too.

Ras seems like a holier than thou dick, imo. Just recently in WoW I was taking a Warrior into Deadmines because I was asked to tank, asked to tank. Then on our way down the Ras-type priest who knows fucking everything, obviously, he is a priest you know, decides that me using a 2hander is severely lowering our chances of successfully beating the biggest newb dungeon in the game. Because I’ve never done it before with multiple other warriors, I haven’t seen my brother use a 2h all the way into his 50s being a tank in instances. But whatever, I was reminded why I fucking hate PvEing.

Everyone’s saying PvP players are such a niche market. But if you think about it, every game that ever showed a glimmer of hope to a PvPer eventually turned into a PvE fagbear heaven. As Forrest Gump would say, we PvPers are the raccoons that your momma shoos of the porch with a broom. You try so hard to keep us out of your games, you can’t deny it.

As for people saying that no ones going to want to leave WoW to go play Warhammer because it’s so PvP hellbent, you’re fucking wrong. I know you are. It’s a fact. See, PvEers like to kill monsters, they like a large certainty that they will win, they liked static responses from their opponents, because you know, they’re bad at games. Whereas PvPers, for the most part, are the opposite. Don’t get me wrong, I know about the fucking angsty 12 year olds who kill grays and think that makes them good. But those kids eventually quit, it’s a fact. My point is, as a PvEer, you probably weren’t drawn in to a game such as Counter-Strike. Which some would argue is PvP. Sure, maybe a few of you tried it, maybe even loved it, but you loved it because of your favorite pub server and playing with the same people and probably stacking teams with them because hey, you payed for admin and you have to win like a pve fagbear.

Tons of Counter-Strike players have dipped into WoW, if you didn’t know. Many of whom eventually stopped playing CS due to WoW. They may be the level 70s in uber duber Epic gear (you know the gear better than yours even though you love killin monsters) sitting in Ironforge or Org flappin their jaws in the friggin Trade channel. I didn’t say PvPers were all people you’d ever want to know, but that doesn’t make them nonexistent. But yeah, there are a ton of people in WoW who like beating other people because they know that they are better. And as another commenter above me stated, a lot of people are tired of WoW.

On a side note, more of a carebear vs. me note, I’d just like to mention something that some people either might not have encountered, have erased from their memory due to its unpleasantness, or don’t remember ever seeing: When PvPers decide to PvE, we’re still better than you at it. Because we’re already good, we don’t train against a dummy that doesn’t move.

Alright, I’m done, sorry for invading your comments syncaine I just really hate the PvE mentality for the most part, a lot of them are huge fucking dicks and they aren’t even aware of it. Whereas people like me, are aware that we’re dicks, and we’ll fight you about it too (in game, we’re not retarded), unlike some.

See you either out on the BATTLEFIELD killing or on the FORUMS crying.

Yeah I know there’s a grammatical error at the beginning of the second one, but fuck you.

I want to laugh now at how worked up I got over that shit. Leave my love alone you fucking assholes!

A bitter hooray

So I live like a filthy animal most of the time, in a somewhat cheap apartment. They made me sign like 12 things on the lease, a Satellite Dish thing (like anyone uses those), and a Mildew one too. Anyways, a little before Xmas my air conditioner stopped working. I could just call the office and have them send someone, but then I’d have to hide my recreational activities, clean up, hide a carpet burn, etc. Obviously, getting it fixed was too much of a hassle for a guy like me. Plus I didn’t want them to blame it on me.

So, it got hot as shit, and I live in fucking South West Florida, so, yeah, I’m retarded. Anyways, I eventually get the bright idea one night, unable to sleep due to the heat, to google broken air conditioner. It turns out mildew can fuck your shit up, hot damn! Learn somethin new everyday. I read that proper ventilation is necessary to remove mildew shit from the air. So, I leave all my windows open, create a makeshift screen for my sliding glass door, and voila, ventilation. Not to mention turning on my oven vent and my bathroom vent.

So, what seemed like forever passed. A cold front had come and gone and it was getting fucking hot again. Everyday I would try and turn on the AC to no avail. That is, until yesterday. The outside unit is right under our bedroom window, so if we hear that come on we know it’s time to celebrate. Well, I turned it from Off to Cool and I hear the inside unit make some crackle noises or some shit, like how houses creak.

WHAT?! It hasn’t made that noise in a while! Turn it off and back on! Come on little buddy you can do it! All of a sudden, we hear a sequence of clicks, a low hum begins, and it’s the outside unit. HOO FUCKING RA MOTHER FUCKERS! Excitement!

My house is fucking cold again, it’s really a great feeling. Because I did it myself, with only my brain and my internets, but mainly my internets.

So that’s the hooray, now here’s the bitter.

Tobolds’ blog is a nice blog to visit if you’re into MMOs. What he has to say is usually lengthy, coherent, and somewhat relevant. Like I said, it’s a good blog. But god damn man, I don’t know why he posts about PvP.

IMO he comes off as the stereotypical “carebear”. OO BONEDEAD THE NAME CALLER. I don’t really mean it negatively, I just, don’t know how else to describe it.

It’s the same thing every time for any game throughout MMO history. The more vocal, more listened to people, are usually, more into PvE than PvP.

They make rash assumptions about every PvPer. Guys just like me, 21, to people up in their 30s, we all get thrown into the same category as every fucking 12 year old. Why? Because the 12 year olds have problems in school or somewhere socially, so they take out their anger and dumb kid aggression on anyone they can in a game. Usually the victims are the PvEers, or maybe, get this, young PvPers who will now grow up to be annoying carebears just because they hold grudges against PvPers. Maybe we continue this shit with our ruthlessness, maybe there can be no peace like the aliens in independence day said.

So, we get their bad rap, even though most of us were that kid at one time, I was for fucking sure. But god damn it man, I’m not anymore. My PvP has evolved, adapted, matured. I have honor, morals, and a sense of humor. I’m not some fucking 12 year old chokin his chicken and rubbin his rocks every single time he kills anyone whether they had a chance or not.

It’s a bad stereotype for PvPers. We can’t be very vocal about it because, a lot of PvPers, I’d like to assume, are like me somewhat. We just aren’t fucking vocal, we’re either owning some faces, or we’re not being vocal.

How much can you say about PvP anyway? A good moment in PvP to me is the same as a good moment in sports that I played. I’m not going to tell you a friggin story about me jumping high as shit and catching a baseball and everyone cheering, because it’s not fucking interesting to hear about, only seeing the event will make you care.

But everyones gotta kill some monsters at some point. Common ground with the enemy.

Haha, I don’t know what the fuck my point is, or even if my shit makes sense, whatever. Typing all of this really makes me want to go PvP fanboy it up on some carebear forums though, fightzor style. Fucking hate carebears.

It’s like if I was to start talking about the problems with fucking raiding. I’ve done it maybe 4 times. Two dragon raids in DAoC (not much of a raid imo), Scarlet Monastery, Deadmines. That’s fucking it.

Now, imagine a week has passed since I told you about how many times I’ve raided.

Everyone who raids just wants the phat loot and doesn’t want to work hard. They’re always just sitting around, waiting to see the loot spam. Waiting to random 1000. PvE brings out the worst in people. How many guilds have disbanded over loot from one boss going to a favored guild member over other members who feel they deserve it? PvEers will exploit anything they can to bring down a boss easier. Most PvEers don’t even raid unless they know they can win. They don’t care about the challenge at all, they all, every last one of them, just want to take the easy way out and get the phats. That’s why we have restrictions on the number of players who can enter a raid dungeon at one time. Maybe Warhammer or Conan will be able to reverse a decade of MMORPG PvE trends and turn players into heroes willing to sacrifice their own phats for the greater good of their guild.

Oh yeah that’s right, they’re here, they’re queer, and they’re gonna be here every year.